I recently purchased a Vevor 40 piece tap and die set. Not something I expect to use very often but useful to have.
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Just so happens my latest mini project required one M6x1mm male and female thread. So the set came in handy quicker than I expected.
The tap worked OK cutting a thread in a piece of brass. But the male thread was needed on the end of an En1 mild steel part which I had turned to just under 6mm. But I found the die absolutely useless – it won’t even start cutting a thread.
So to the question. Any recommendations on a good tap and die set for very occasional use? Obviously “you get what you pay for” comes into play here. But cutting handful of threads in year doesn’t justify the cost of a high quality “professional” set, but does call for something that actually works!
Andy
Hi Andy
Before you lay out for another set there are a couple of things that might help (- apologies if you know all this already, if we start from scratch it may help someone else later).
Is the end of the stock generously chamfered?
‘Just under 6mm’ – you could make this say, 5.8mm – are these solid dies?
One side of the die will have a tapered ‘lead-in’, usually the lettered side, which must be presented to the work.
Are you holding the work in a lathe or doing it on the bench?
..usually the difference between a cheap set and an expensive set is more to do with durability & accuracy – all things being equal I’d still expect them to cut okay..
When it comes to cheap sets buy the one in the nicest box!
You know that the odds are you will have to replace the taps and dies that you happen to use with better ones which need to be stored appropriately where you can find them. Nice box keeps everything together and protects the cutting edges.
To be honest cheap set prices in general aren’t unreasonable for a decent box on its own. Taps, dies et al being a bonus. For me making boxes is one off those things I can do but never get round to.
Sometimes you get lucky. Way, way back I got a very cheap set, about £1.50 equivalent then, in an unwonderful box from the Calais Hypermarket when helping the official, unofficial kid sister with a biggie run. Purely because it had a some odd ball sizes that were hard to find then at wallets roundly prices. One of which I needed right then but £15 a tap in UK was scary. Most of the taps were good including all the oddballs.
Which was nice.
Fixed size hex dies have done good service for cleaning up threads on bolts and studs when sorting other folks bodge jobs.
Tap wrench and diestock re-defined the concept of c**p tho’.
Clive
The answer is a Lemon! As far as I know there is no reliable source of cheap taps and dies of reasonable quality, whatever the hell ‘reasonable quality’ means!
What you get in a cheap set is a gamble, anything from all good to all rubbish. It depends on the material used, the accuracy of the grind, and the effectiveness of the heat-treatment. The M4 tap in the set I bought from Lidl snapped like a carrot first time I used it, but – so far – all the others are fine. Lidl is a good place to buy, because although they know nothing about tools, rubbish can be returned, and the customer doesn’t lose money. Vevor is an online ‘box-shifter’, selling almost anything they can source: they aren’t a tool supplier, and don’t manufacture anything. The brand is just a label. Like most other box-shifter products, how well-made Vevor items are varies wildly from good to awful. Buying cheap is a gamble, making some customers very happy, whilst others are horribly disappointed.
The best way to buy taps and dies depends on the needs of the workshop. One that cuts a lot of threads should go up-market, and not risk cheap sets. However, I’m probably closer to Andy in that I don’t cut enough threads to justify spending big money on high-end tooling. Noting that I consider tools to be consumables, not an investment, I went for this compromise:
Although this balance works for me, it’s not for everyone. A busy professional workshop would almost certainly be happy to spend big-money on taps and dies because time is money: tools that break or go blunt prematurely are money straight down the drain. Apart from the annoyance, clearing a broken tap doesn’t cost a hobbyist anything.
No easy answers. There are two unforgivable sins in engineering: wasting money on expensive stuff that doesn’t get used often enough to deliver value; and wasting money on cheap stuff that can’t deliver. This being a hobby though, personal opinion matters. Some delight in filling their workshops with the most expensive tooling they can find (even if it’s never used), whilst others do remarkable work with cheap rubbish! Most of us are probably in the middle, sometimes gambling on cheap, and sometimes choosing to de-risk jobs by going up-market.
In my experience UK hobby suppliers do a reasonable job selecting mid-range tooling, i.e affordable and not too cheap. Firms like ArcEuro go to some trouble selecting tools for import in a way that a box-shifter or internet seller doesn’t. Their overheads push prices up compared with a box-shifter, but make it less likely the customer will be disappointed by the product. And if a customer is disappointed, a UK hobby supplier will usually offer support. Generally I buy from them, even though an equally good alternative might be available on the internet – I don’t trust my luck much!
Dave
Sadly, you only get what you pay for.
Boxed sets are nice, and keep the tools safely, but I have yet to find a need for a M9 or M11 tappomg (For thread inserts perhaps?)
Tap and Die fairly recently changed hands, I believe, bought by C R Tools.
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They used to sell empty boxes (Several years ag mine cost £26 each, but prices will have risen)
So my various types of Taps and Dies are now boxed rather then loos in a drawer or tobacco tin.
For “one off” or very occasional use, Carbon steel will suffice if carefully used.
For more frequent use, the oncost of HSS is justified.
Occasionally, you will come across a Die which has been marked on the rear face, and so lacks the lead in chamfer. You just need to remember to use it “wrong way round”.
I adjust my split does to a good quality commercial bolt or setscrew, before use.
For a cutting lubricant Trefolux or Rocol RTD are very good, better than drenching in oil.
I have good experience of both Tracy Tools and Tap and Die Company, but anything from a reputable supplier, such as Arc Euro or RDG should be quite suitable.
HTH
Howard
On Said:Forgot sets, buy individual HSS ones. Scour ebay for new old stock Dormer, SKF, Presto, Hall etc.
But keep brain fully engaged at all times! This example suggests the Dormer reputation alone isn’t enough to protect buyers from a keen salesman :
This Dormer Tap and Die Set is a must-have for any DIY enthusiast. The set includes a high-quality tap and die set, perfect for measuring and cutting with precision. The brand, Dormer, is known for its durability and reliability, making it a great investment for any workshop. The set is designed with the British Association system of measurement, making it easy to use and understand. Whether you’re a professional or a DIYer, this tap and die set is a essential tool for any tool kit. Get yours today and take your DIY projects to the next level!
Set my alarm bells ringing!
One buyer, perhaps his mother, reports of this chap: Trustworthy A+++++ Seller, Prompt dispatch, good communications, and item properly described. Many Thanks. 5 Stars all around!
Unfortunately, another says, ‘Seller described the items as “very well looked after” I bid on the auction as there was certian items I wanted to keep in my personal collection. When I opened the parcel it was a cloud of dust. There was mold spores everywhere and it stunk. The majority of items was effected. The seller clearly didn’t check what they was selling and they think it’s okay to ship items with toxic mold all over. As some items wasn’t affected, I requested a partial refund in which the seller was constantly rude.’
Buying too cheap is one kind of gamble. Buying second-hand is another because a pre-loved item’s history matters.
Dave
What’s difficult about BA? It is an entirely logical metric thread, converted to Imperial dimensions.
I know it’s not one to choose if you want to screwcut it
It’s the suggestion that BA is ‘easy to understand and use’, presumably in comparison with other inferior systems. It’s rubbish: taps and dies are just as easy, or difficult, to use in any thread system. I’ve never noticed any practical difference between Whitworth, BS, Unified, BA, National or metric whilst threading with taps and dies.
When it comes to the mathematical specification of thread systems, I don’t see much difference between them: they all make my brain hurt. But if I had to choose which thread system was mathematically the ‘most difficult’, it would have to be BA, because it does everything in metric before converting the answer into Imperial at the last possible moment. An unnecessary complication for political reasons.
Dave
The virtue of buying sets versus only what’s needed is another endless debate!
Folk who already know what they need and have standardised on a narrow range of sizes, don’t need sets. They save money by not buying tools they don’t need, surely a good thing.
But these happy chappies are unlikely to be beginners just feeling their way in a new hobby, who are perhaps very uncertain about where it will take them. Sets make far more sense for newbies, even if some of the contents never get used. The set is as much educational as practical. The set will also provide a starter tap and die holder. Just don’t go mad buying in every possibility! Perhaps start with a Lidl 8 size metric set for under £10 rather than a 36 piece Dormer, yours for only £ (inc VAT).
Jobbing workshops who handle a range of tasks are also likely to buy full sets. Owning sets makes sure they have the right tool on hand when needed. For them, downtime is agonisingly expensive, and there’s a point at which it’s cheaper to fully equip than it is to prat about with small orders. Their reasons are not those of a man in shed who cheerfully waits weeks for an ebay bargain to turn up.
Only the individual can decide, and it may take a while to understand what one is about. I started by buying a few cheap taper only sets, but after understanding what I really need, now replace individual items. A few key sizes only are kept in in taper, second and plug.
As a deliberately metric workshop, my collection of Imperial taps and dies is extremely thin. If I had a brainstorm and decided to build an LBSC classic loco, I might start by buying a cheap Imperial set on the assumption most of them will be useful eventually, or I might carefully go through the drawings and buy exactly what’s needed. Going carefully through drawings is hard work, but there are other good reasons for doing it!
Dave
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