What to look for when buying a dozer - TractorByNet - Tractor Forum

I'm in a love hate relationship with my dozer. It does what nothing else will do, but it also causes me more pain and suffering then everything else that I have combined. It's a Case, which has a great local dealer, so parts are fairly easy to get, but as I found out a few months ago, Case no longer makes or even knows where to get a replacement fan. They spent a week trying to figure out what would work from another machine, but while they were doing that, I found a used machine being dismantled in Florida.

Dozers are expensive. It doesn't matter what you pay for it, you will end up spending the same one way or another. If you buy new, you will spend it up front. If you buy used, you will spend it on repairs. If you are very lucky and don't do very much with it, you might get away with very few repairs and nothing too expensive. I'm not very lucky.

There are basically two types of dozers. Small and big. Small is cheaper, easier to move around on a trailer and are usually more common. They can do a fair amount, but do have their limits. Moving dirt and digging ponds can be very difficult if the machine is too light or underpowered to dig into hard packed soil. I ran a John Deere 450G at my place before buying my Case . The Deere just slid across the dirt. If I angled the blade, I could get the tips to dig some, but otherwise, it was useless for digging.

I used it for clearing land, but found that it was only good on small saplings. Anything that was partially grown would stop it and spin it's tracks. Digging out those trees and pushing them over was very time consuming, and in allot of cases, just not possible if the ground was too hard to dig into. It takes a big hole to take out a tree with a dozer if the dozer cannot push it over.

Then there was the real problem, pushing the debris into a burn pile. The small dozer just didn't have the power to push a full blade worth of trees. The tracks would spin and I'd have to try it with fewer and fewer trees. Even with a smaller load, it wouldn't turn with the load. I had to stop, back up and reposition myself to go in the direction that I wanted to go.

That was an 80hp dozer. For trails, maintaining roads and smoothing out the dirt, it's great. I enjoyed the heck out of it going through the woods and creating ATV trails. I would push over the small stuff and work my way around the bigger trees. It was allot of fun.

For serious land clearing and digging, I went with a 169hp dozer that weighs almost 40,000 pounds. It will dig in hard dirt, it will push over trees a foot to a foot and a half thick without too much effort. Bigger trees sometimes if the soil is moist, but in the heat of summer, the size of the tree it will push over is smaller. Sometimes it wills snap a tree off and then you have to deal with the root ball.

It will push a full load of trees and turn with that load. It has an 8 way blade, so grading and shaping the land is easy. I can carve roads, or clear trails with it. It's too heavy to move around, but since it's just for here, that's not a consideration.

My neighbor has a guy with a Cat D4C that he hires to do work on his place. That dozer can accomplish quite a bit, but they still use a full sized backhoe and have had excavators in there several times to take out the bigger trees and dig his pond. That dozer was good for fence clearing, but not any good for big areas. It just can't handle large loads of trees and debris effectively.

When you decide to buy, you need to think of what you want to do with the dozer and decide how big you need it to be. Those who say a small dozer will do anything a big one will have probably never run both. The amount of dirt that I can move in a day compared to the JD450 isn't even close in comparison. The amount of land that I can clear in a day or week is also not even close.

Parts are not that big a difference between small and big machines. Engines are bigger, but a turbo or starter or whatever that you need to replace is gonna be priced more on who makes it then how big the motor is.

The other difference between dozers is how it's driven. Clutches or hydrostatic. The Deere was clutches and allot more work to operate. Older machines will all be clutches. I have no idea what it takes to replace or even adjust them. I know it's doable because people have been doing it forever. What it takes is just a mystery to me, and hopefully will remain so.

Hydrostatic is what I have on my Case dozer. The engine runs a set of hydraulic pumps, that in turn drive the tracks. The pumps are fairly straight forward, but extremely expensive. For my dozer, replacement pumps cost $25,000 each from Case. I had to rebuild one of mine, which cost $2,000. In order for them to give me a warranty, I also had to have them rebuild the drive motor. That was another grand. I had to take them out of the dozer and bring them to the rebuild shop. Just finding a place that was qualified to do this took allot of effort. I won't get into what it takes to remove those parts or how you have to get the tracks off the ground and run the dozer when you install them, but it's not a simple task.

Which brings me to the main things you need to know about owning a dozer. It is just about impossible to find somebody to fix them for you. In simple terms, you are not that important to the dealer or an equipment mechanic. The time it will take for them to come out and deal with you cost them money because they can make allot more taking care of their big customers. You either need a very good friend or family member to fix it for you, or you will have to learn how to do this yourself. I've had to replace my tracks by myself, rebuild my engine by myself, rebuild that hydraulic pump by myself and just about every hydraulic cylinder. There's not much that I haven't had to fix on it, but I know that it's just a matter of time until those things break down too. You will need allot of tools, something that will lift heavy parts and patience. Some things are very expensive, so you will have to either have deep pockets, be good at saving money, or a credit card ready to go. Some repairs have to be done out in the field. I've had branches take out hoses in some terrible locations. I spent a day with a chainsaw cutting branches and trees up so that I could tunnel under the back of the dozer to get a hose that had snapped off. I think it was $20 for the hose, but it was a day of misery to change it.

Running a dozer is fun for the first day, maybe even the first week, but then it gets painful. They beat you up, require total concentration at all times. You don't just drive it, you are also working the blade, which is really two points. Each outside tip is what you watch and have to pay attention to. Your eyes only see one tip at a time, so it's a constant battle to know what's going on with both ends of the blade at the same time. Add steering the dozer and your speed to the mix and you'll find that it's allot to pay attention to. My dad has been trying to do this for years now, but just doesn't get it. Others have been out here and tried, but go too fast and can't control the blade. Getting them to slow down sounds easy, but it doesn't happen. Even at a crawl, working the blade requires allot of practice and concentration.

All this concentration on a very rough riding machine that makes allot of noise will just wear you out. That's when it's running good. If it's giving you problems, then it's even more exhausting. Not to mention frustrating. The fun factor disappears real fast.

After you decide what sized machine you want, what brand that has a dealer close to you with parts and how much money you can spend, you'll need to start looking at machines. A dozer has just a few main parts to them to look at, so it's not all that complicated. The engine is pretty basic. If it's running strong, then it's fine. If not, you get to decide if it's worth fixing. The same is true for the drive train. If the clutches or hydrostatic drive work, then you're good to go. To check that, put the blade down into the dirt as far as it will go and spin the tracks going forward. If both tracks spin at the same speed, you're probably fine. If not, then there might be a problem. Don't listen to the person selling the machine, they are probably lying as to why it's not right and how simple it is to fix. Everything is cheap and simple to fix when they are selling it, but for some reason, they never do these cheap and simple repairs themselves.

The hydraulic cylinders are simple and fairly easy to repair. If they are leaking, that's not a big deal. Same thing with the hoses. Not something to pay allot of attention on. Even brand new looking hoses will rupture on you, it's just part of owning equipment.

The real money and what you really need to know about is the undercarriage. This wears out, it's normal and just what happens when you run a machine. Avoid the wide tracked, flotation type of tracks, they wear out faster and cause more problems because of the twisting of the tracks when you turn. The sprocket can be either a one piece unit or multiple pieces. I thing mine is five pieces. The one piece sprocket can be a pain to replace because you have to take the tracks off. The multiple piece sprocket is easy and you can change them without allot of effort. Just unbolt each piece and install the new one, move the dozer forwards or backwards to expose the next piece and do it again. The rest is where you run into money.

The main thing is how much wear is on the bushings. These are the round metal parts that go into the sprocket on the tracks. The sprocket makes contact with the bushings to drive the dozer. These have to be pressed on and off. They have two lives, one on each side. Brand new, they are perfectly round tubes, but after so many thousand hours, one side will wear down. When it gets to a certain point, you have to remove the tracks and bring them to a place that will turn them for you. Cost of this can be in the $5,000 range. That's what I've been told, I haven't done this yet as mine were just turned when I bought my dozer and when they wear out, I will have to buy new ones.

Before buying, take somebody with you who knows about dozers. Hire him or do whatever it takes to have him look it over. Be careful on this as some guys who are great operators don't have a clue about fixing them. Be sure to know this before you make your decision. Again, some mechanics know allot about fixing them, but nothing about operating them. You can also take pictures of it and post them here. Maybe we can help, or spot something that might make a difference in whether you buy it or not.

Good luck,
Eddie

OP Member Joined: Posts: 179 Now that I'm about to move into the retrement home full time, I've got alot of 'projects' lined up in my mind, and in my corner of Pennsylvania you can't dig 3 inches without hitting rocks, is it worth while to invest in one of these mini dozers? Struck corp www.struckcorp.com has a magnatrac 28 hp diesel dozer with a bucket loader attachment for $21,000. I plan to have a beach area dug out in my pond as well as clear a wooded area and build a 50 by 30 reflecting pond in front of the house. I've got the time and I've operated heavy equipment before so I'm sure I can work the thing (maybe not fix it, but definately work it) but I wonder if anyone out there has experience digging their own ponds or specifically with a struck dozer? Or maybe it's better to rent, any thoughts? How's the resale value on this type of equipment?

Lunker Joined: Posts: 494Likes: 1 Hmmm.... I'm not really sure what to think of those things.

I would suggest that you'd be better off, and get much greater and varied use, from a used 4wd backhoe in the same price range.

My thought on re-sale is that these items appear to be really niche market... not likely to sell to anyone that would use one for a living so it might be a hard sell just to other 'private' owners. But really hard to know... never heard of them before.

Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures! Member Joined: Posts: 183 Unless you think you can use it for several years, my advise would be against it for the same reasons as Pottsy indicates.

For that price, you can buy a CAT D4 in fairly good condition that will be large enough to accomplish most of your heavy work yet agile enough for some final touches. The great thing about the CAT (or JD for that matter) is the high resale value and that it is a size that everyone wants.

The backhoe may be the ticket too. Guess it depends if you can push the dirt where you want it, or if you need the bucket and rubber tires to pick it up and move it.

When we started buying equipment for our project the biggest mistake that we made was buying too small. Equipment dealers will let you test drive. Take advantage of that and see what you can handle. I have equipment stories that never end. Just talked to the State today and laid the groundwork for a new permit.

Member Joined: Posts: 28 Interesting setup. Looks like you would have a more compact package compared to a tractor with front loader. On the down side it looks like it would tear up any turf that you drive it over.

A wheeled tractor would be much more land friendly and still do some very heavy work for the same or less money.

Just my two cents, but, Get something you will use most of the time, maybe more general purpose. If you need to have a more heavy duty machine (front loader / backhoe) Rent one. Saturday delivery by noon you can have it for 8 hours run time over the entire weekend. I pay $187.50 +$50 delivery/pickup.

Bottom line whatever your decision, enjoy yourself! I know it is a great stress reliever for me to get outside and move some dirt.

JW

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Field CorrespondentLunker Joined: Posts: 957Likes: 41 I bought a trackhoe with visions of using it to do everything I wanted and then selling it for little loss. It didn't exactly work out that way.

While I enjoy my trackhoe and am glad I bought it, you may well be money ahead to rent whatever equipment you need when you need it unless you are an astute buyer and mechanically competent, want to do a side business, or can utilize it for tax advantages.

Lunker Joined: Posts: 3,075 PaPond,

A small used dozer, like a CASE 450, will cost you a lot less and retain its resale value. I bought one for a pond renovation project about 1 year ago and it is worth more now than what I paid for it...but I had the assistance of an experienced dozer man/mechanic to evaluate what I was buying before I bought it. Otherwise, I would have made a bad mistake. If you are not an experienced dozer person/mechanic, get one to help you.

The only problem I've had is that I don't want to sell mine now that I have finished the intended work. They are so much fun and so useful. They can do things a tractor can't.

Lunker Joined: Posts: 59 PaPond,
I would recommend that you buy a used skid loader (Bobcat). You can get one with tracks- they are very versatile, they move a lot of dirt, they have as much horsepower as what you are looking at and they hold their value ( as long as you buy used and it's a diesel), They're also fun to play with and easy to work on.

Brad B.